Lessons Learned at a Physician’s Retirement Planning Workshop

When I saw these words in the ASA Annual Meeting schedule, I knew I had to check it out:

 

Successful Retirement Planning: Accumulating and Utilizing Your Well-Earned Savings in Retirement!

 


It was a three-hour tour, guided by pediatric anesthesiologist Jonathan D. Griswold, MD. I didn’t sign up to learn how to plan for retirement; I’ve got a pretty good handle on how I’m doing that. Curiosity drove me to add the item to my itinerary.

I had questions.

  • What would be covered?
  • Would concepts of financial independence and early retirement be addressed?
  • How many would attend? What would the audience look like?
  • Would sites like The White Coat Investor, Physician on FIRE, or others be mentioned?

 

Who Attends a Retirement Planning Workshop?

 

I was keenly interested in the topic, but some physicians might find three hours of retirement and investing talk to be tedious. Judging by the fact that roughly 99.8% of the conference attendees chose to be elsewhere during the talk, I found myself among a tiny minority.

In addition to the speaker and me, I counted 27 other heads in a room with 48 seats at a conference with about 15,000 attendees. That statistic speaks volumes about the interest level.

I see both good and bad in the fact that so few showed up for a $75 financial workshop. It could mean that:

  • Most have a great handle on retirement planning already.
  • Few have much interest in retiring someday.
  • Attendees would rather be in scientific and medical sessions.
  • Frugality reigns. Why pay $75 when you can find similar info online for free?

While many physicians will fall into one or more of these camps, I would have liked to have seen a stronger showing, particularly among the younger physicians who stand to benefit the most from this information. Eyeing up the number of gray and / or balding heads from the back of the room, I gathered most of the audience consisted of late-career physicians. Maybe 25% — that would be seven or eight physicians — appeared to be under the age of 50.

 

retirement planning workshop

 

Overview of the Physician Retirement Planning Workshop

 

Beforehand, I wondered how a speaker could fill three hours continuously talking about this stuff. Afterwards, I was amazed at how much information Dr. Griswold had squeezed in to three short hours.

Early on, he told us that he understood there would be a wide range of knowledge in the room, but that he had to teach as though we were all beginners. That’s fair, and it’s what a good teacher needs to do. I think our speaker did an excellent job of quickly covering the basics while still making time for more advanced topics.

We started with the history of the concept of retirement and retirement spending, starting with Otto Von Bismarck’s social insurance program in 1889, and moved on to retirement accounts in the United States.

The different types of retirement accounts were discussed (pensions, qualified vs. non-qualified accounts, traditional vs. Roth, etc…) and the tax treatment of each.


With the basics covered, we had time to dive into more advance topics like RMD’s, Roth conversions, and the “backdoor Roth.” Judging by a show of hands, I might have been the only one in the room doing it, and that includes our speaker who would be subject to the pro-rata rule.

No discussion of retirement would be complete without addressing social security, which we did in some detail. We also touched on annuities, withdrawal rates (with Bengen’s 4% safe withdrawal rate study featured), and sequence of return risk.

Finally, the effect of fees on your account growth, age at retirement, and common causes of financial failure in retirement were all a part of this rather comprehensive workshop.

 

What I Liked About the Retirement Planning Workshop

 

The talk was given by a colleague with nothing to sell and no discernable conflicts of interest. He has passed the CFP exam, but does not use it professionally. In his opening statement, he told us:

“I’m here to help you make good decisions and prevent you from getting taken.”

This reminded me of the White Coat Investors mission to help those who wear the white coat get a “fair shake” on Wall Street. A noble cause.

I felt the talk was thorough, if not slightly rushed out of necessity. I had a free lunch to grab at a noon talk, so our speaker’s timeliness was much appreciated.


The questions from the audience were good, and the answers and discussion that followed were excellent, as well. I wish there had been more time to dissect some of the topics in greater detail.

I was happy to see the 4% rule come up. Earlier in the talk, multiples of income were used as guides to how much one should save, and I didn’t know if we’d see anything more sensible.

I liked seeing the backdoor Roth mentioned. Many docs should be able to find a way to get their traditional IRA money into an individual 401(k) or employer’s 401(k) to take advantage of this. Clearly, most do not. It’s a small win, but I’ll take any win when it comes to lowering tax drag and avoiding future capital gains.

I also learned a thing or two. I didn’t know the subtle differences between a 403(b) and 401(k), but I learned that a 403(b) has more limited investment options, but may offer an additional $3,000 in deferrment to employees of > 15 years of service.

The “retirement smile” was a new concept to me. It’s not the big toothy grin I’ll wear on my face when I do pull the trigger, but rather a graph of spending decreasing as we age to a nadir around age 80, at which point spending starts to rise due to health care costs. I think many retirees expect a gradual decrease without thinking about that potential and likely uptick later on (if you live long enough to see “later on”).

Dr. Griswold gave us a plethora of sources to refer to, and I liked the fact that some of my favorites were mentioned in the slides or handouts, including Michael Kitces, Michael Piper, Wade Pfau, and the Bogleheads.

 

What I Didn’t Like About the Retirement Planning Workshop

 

On the subject of resources, I was surprised and disappointed not to see The White Coat Investor mentioned. In my opinion, it’s the best online investing and personal finance resource specifically for physicians, and the site and forum are worthy of a mention somewhere in the talk or handouts.

I alluded to this earlier, but when discussing how much to save for retirement, numbers like 8x, 12x, or 16.6x (Pfau) of your income were used as rough guides, but there was no mention of using a multiple of your anticipated annual spending. A bunch of retirement calculators were referenced, all of which use the same faulty logic that only works if you spend a significant majority of your paycheck.




When the 4% rule was displayed, that would have been the perfect time to talk about how one could use it as a reason to save 25x annual spending for your retirement / financial independence goal. The only mention I recall of spending as a factor at all was in one slide listing “lifestyle” as one of numerous variables that will impact your retirement needs.

It was good to see a slide from Vanguard showing how investment fees could knock $100,000 or more off the ending value of a $100,000 investment over thirty years. But the slide doesn’t do justice to the disservice of high fees, because exactly none of us are investing one lump sum and never investing again. As I’ve demonstrated in one of my favorite posts, investment fees will cost you millions.

Several investment vehicles weren’t mentioned at all, perhaps in the interest of time. Still, I think it’s important to bring up the HSA, a.k.a. triple-tax-advantaged stealth IRA that is a wonderful tax deferral / avoidance tool that saves me at least $3,000 in taxes per year.

Speaking of saving on taxes, I was surprised to hear that the good doctor giving the talk makes Roth contributions to his employer-sponsored retirement account. It could be that he expects to have an RMD problem.

In general, I prefer traditional contributions for anyone above the 25% federal income tax bracket, and especially for those in the 33% to 39.6% brackets. There’s a good chance we will find ourselves in lower tax brackets, and possibly in lower tax states, in retirement.

If 529 Plans were mentioned, I missed it. In fact, paying for college wasn’t much more  than a line item, but the choices physicians make in this department can have a profound effect on their ability to save for retirement.

What did I dislike the most?

The fact that so few people showed up. I rattled off a few possible reasons and excuses above, but I think the #1 reason is that many physicians genuinely are not interested in personal finance and are comfortable trusting their hard-earned money to be managed by someone else. Dr. Griswold did talk about the differences between a fiduciary and suitability standard, and I wonder how many physicians even know which standard their advisor is following.

 


You’re still not using Personal Capital? Track all your accounts in one place like I do.


 

Have you attended a similar workshop? We were told this talk was the only session at the conference not of a scientific nature. Have you seen anything similar at a medical conference? Would you have attended?

 

48 comments

  • Hi Doc,

    It sounds like you had a lot of fun. Too bad not many people attended. Maybe the $75 was too high? How much were other workshops?

    I think your blog should also have been mentioned. It’s def a good resource for physicians and non-physicians.

    • I don’t know if I’d call it fun, but it was certainly interesting. The get together at Harpoon Brewing last evening was the fun “workshop.”

      Hopefully WCI, this site, and others will be mentioned in future talks. Or maybe I’ll have to start giving one of my own. 🙂

      Best,
      -PoF

      • Joe

        I don’t think $75 is too high, especially for physicians. They can afford it. It’s too bad so few people attended. It sounds like a good workshop.
        PoF, you should try giving some talks. Maybe you’ll like doing that kind of thing.

      • ENT Doc

        Getting butts in the seats is the hardest part to be honest. If doing this as part of a national conference it depends on how things are paid for. Some conferences have you pay an up front fee that covers any/all lectures after that. Others may you pay a lower up front fee and pay as you go for the lectures you want to attend. Given that this probably didn’t give CME credit that is another reason people may not have attended. Things to think about in terms of addressing the most important concern – getting attendance up.

  • I’ve been to a couple of retirement workshops along the way. I have to admit that they always felt like they were pushing a sales product instead of trying to help me along the way. But that’s just my limited experience with them so far.

  • Vagabond MD

    Nice synopsis and always good to review a familiar topic from another perspective.

    Interesting observation regarding attendance, but it is hard to draw any firm conclusions.

    I had a similar attendance revelation when I sat in on a two hour session on “burnout” at a similar size national Radiology meeting (ARRS) this spring. The lecture hall, by my estimate, held about 300 people.

    I arrived early and took a good seat in the front, and the room was filling quickly. By mid way through the first hour, both seats next to me had filled which is very unusual in these meetings for typical “categorical course” content. I turned around, and every seat that I could see was filled, and standing room was two-deep in the horseshoe shape area around the seating.

    Wow! I had never seen so many people in one of these lecture rooms before. In more ways than one, I was not alone.

    • Impressive. I don’t think many people make the connection between finances and burnout, but as you well know, financial independence (or progress towards it) certainly makes it easier to begin designing a career that is less likely to burn you out.

      I’ll be attending a session today called Resilience: Do You Have It? It’s at 3:30 on the last full day of the meeting, and many attendees have already flown home, so I don’t expect a full house, but it will be interesting to hear the lecture.

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • I’ve been at seminars like that too – where everyone is socializing in the main hall with all the booths, collecting swag. Meanwhile I’m among ten other people in a cavernous room meant for 300, following some poor sap’s power point parade. Good for you grabbing a free lunch out of the deal. 🙂

    Tough to reckon why so many opt out of learning about retirement when given the chance. It’d sure solve a lot of the first world problem of high earners who corkscrew themselves into serious debt.

  • hatton1

    I am surprised that you guys (POF and Vagabond) are still going to national meetings. I quit years ago when MOC started because I realized I could get all the CME that I needed (forced upon me) online. Of course being in solo practice I have no CME fund. Hey POF you should get the speaker to join WCI forum or write you a guest post. I really think younger docs are not realizing you have to start planning in your 30s if you ever want to leave mother medicine.

  • Thanks for the review. I feel like I was there. I’ve had similar experiences. This information seems critically important to me and I never cease to be amazed how indifferent folks are.

  • BBOmom

    Would you clarify (or link if you have previously), what’s the down side to contributing to my employers Roth401, which lets me put away up to 18K/yr in Roth? I mean, other than I’m limited in the fund choices to the 12 my group selects and don’t get the traditional 401 tax break this year? Can you do 18K/yr as a “back door”? Thx

    • Good questions, BBOmom.

      The downside of making Roth contributions as opposed to traditional contributions to the 401(k) is that you miss out on the tax deferral / current year tax deduction of $18,000. Most physicians are in the higher tax brackets. With state income tax, my marginal tax rate has been > 40% most years. Making a traditional contribution saves me ~$8,000 in taxes.

      Roth contributions could be more beneficial if you expect to be in the same or higher tax brackets in retirement. That is very unlikely for the typical physician family, but not unheard of. If you end up with $8 million in a traditional 401(k) at age 70.5, you’d be looking at being required to pull out over $300,000 per year, and that would put you back into those upper tax brackets.

      It’s certainly better to make Roth contributions than no contributions, and some like the behavioral advantage of the Roth contribution, as it’s like forcing yourself to save more because there is no deduction. But… particularly for those who retire before RMD’s are required, you may be able to make Roth conversions at a much lower tax rate, possibly for free if you have little or no other income from dividends, interest, or capital gains. I touch on some of these ideas in this post on traditional versus Roth contributions.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Maurice

    I didn’ realize it was a $ lecture. I attempted to walk in but was stopped. Thanks for the synopsis

    • I wish you could have joined us, Maurice! I was stopped and asked for a ticket, and had completely forgotten it was a paid session. Fortunately, I had the ticket attached to my name badge. I wonder how many more would attend if the talk were free.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Well, that sounds much more thorough than the talks I’ve gone too on retirement at conferences or employer sponsored events! I’m typically one of the younger ones in the room, with most people within 10 years of retirement.

    I always get frustrated when they focus on saving to support a percent of your income, not actual spending. Thinking of retirement savings as a function of your spending increases the motivation to save more and pay attention to consumer habits.

    • The beginning and end of your career are probably the most important times to consider retirement planning. In the beginning, you want to learn to do it well. At the end, you want to start planning your drawdown strategy and ensure you’re in a good position to afford the retirement you want.

      I didn’t focus much on it early in my career, but I did enough right to avoid catastrophes.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Rather than most docs being completely uninterested, my sense when the topic of personal finance and retirement comes up is that my colleagues think it is too “complicated.” Maybe they’ve never taken the time to read about it, or maybe some financial advisor got to them early and put that thought in their heads (financial inception?), but it got there somehow.

    Also, I think that for 99% of docs, you need to get them on board right out of the gate—either when they begin residency or attendinghood. If they decide to go with an advisor for the first few years after residency, it’s a much more monumental task to make the psychological switch to managing one’s own finances.

    • It can be overwhelming when you start learning about all the choices to be made, the tax implications of them, etc… but if you’re smart enough to have understood biochemistry and pharmacodynamics as a medical student, this stuff is not that hard.

      I think there is some fear of making costly mistakes, but it’s often costlier to take no action.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • “Eyeing up the number of gray and / or balding heads from the back of the room, I gathered most of the audience consisted of late-career physicians. ”

    You’re funny lol.

    I’m sorry to hear that not a lot of people showed up, and that the White Collar Investor blog wasn’t mentioned. Maybe the speaker wasn’t quite aware that there’s indeed a FIRE community for physicians.

    I think you’re absolutely right that people can also find the info online, so they weren’t interested in attending the workshop. I know that I want to go to FinCon to meet other bloggers than to learn about FIRE and how to blog. Either way, I’d totally check it out if we had one in our area. ^^

    • It’s possible our presenter is not familiar with WCI. I had read a lot on personal finance before I discovered it. I wanted to reach out to Dr. Griswold before publishing this piece, but surprisingly, I did not find any contact information in the packets he shared with us.

      Unsurprisingly, he does not appear to have a Facebook or Twitter presence. I say unsurprisingly because he proudly announced that he carries a flip phone. He even waved it in the air.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Pof thanks for the summary. I’m sure if the conference was not an extra fee, attendance would be better. I rarely attend the extra fee lectures. There is enough good stuff for free to keep me out of those.
    The connection between burnout and money was mentioned above. I think there is a strong connection. Almost everyone who moonlights, does so because of debt. No doctors, and especially no residents, should be moonlighting. We work too many hours already and have greater than a 50% burnout rate. Adding extra work, just for money, is not a good formula. The Doctors who are debt free, have much less desire to moonlight. That’s why I’ve been preaching about getting out of debt for more than 20 years.
    It doesn’t sound like being debt free was in the retirement lecture. It is key to retiring early.

    • I think you should apply to speak at our ASA meeting next year, or perhaps at one of the surgical meetings you’ve frequented over the years. Physicians just aren’t exposed to this kind of information enough.

      Best,
      -PoF

      p.s. I look forward to meeting you later this week!

      • Pof thanks for the tip about the ASA meeting. I’m looking forward to meeting with the other physician finance bloggers this week. It will be a highlight of my 6 week trip. See you in a few days.

  • I am surprised that you are surprised and a bit discouraged about the lack of interest for personal finance workshops. Welcome to the real world. Since the 1990s my colleague and I have been organizing and coordinating with the teacher’s union investing workshops with speakers who do not sell product, and other informal meetings held at a restaurant. The formal workshops got up to 70 people out of about 60,000 educators at the 2nd largest school district in the country. Just two weeks ago, we had about 60 and we thought it was great. Our restaurant meetings got anywhere from 5-15 people.

    We are interested in personal finance, and the world just isn’t. And I consider myself very lucky that I am one of those who IS interested and will never need a financial adviser. YES!
    This is especially true with public k12 educators who think they can afford not to think about it because of our pensions.

    Here is some food for thought: Our administrators approach the salary level of MDs and I have been told that as a rule, higher income educators (administrators) invest in real estate, and we live in Los Angeles, and the real estate market is very lucrative, if you are lucky (that’s where my late spouse and I made the most money). Only 50% of LAUSD administrators invest in our 403b and or our 457b plans. They could tax defer up to $50,000. Actually, 50% participation rate is much higher than the 30% rate for all educators throughout the country. In all of those years that I was coordinating workshops or meetings, only one administrator show up.

    Keep offering the workshops and don’t get discouraged. Because if you don’t who is going to offer these types of fiduciary-minded workshops which do not sell some expensive product.

    • Excellent thoughts, Stephen.

      I don’t know how to get more people interested. I think people focus more on earning money (nothing wrong with that), but not nearly enough on keeping and growing the money you’ve earned.

      I find it rewarding to try to optimize my investment plan, reduce taxes to the extent that I can, while using evidence-based practices and math to guide those decisions.

      My reach is clearly smaller than Dr. Griswold’s. I publicized a get together at a local brewery last evening and we had a group of ten or so people. Great people, and a good time, but I would have been happy to see a bigger turnout.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Ann

    It’s great that they had such a workshop at your annual assembly. I’ve never seen anything similar at mine–I think they want to keep us working as long as possible to keep those MOC fees coming, lol. I don’t know that I would pay $75 for a lecture format, but I would consider it if it were more interactive and had info I couldn’t get from a book or website. I would like to see more info in general at my specialty’s national meeting about ways to transition your medical career to be exactly what you want once you do reach FI–but it seems like so many people are just treading water, there’s no focus on that topic.

    • Great commentary on MOC, Ann. I actually participated in a focus group put on by the ABA on their MOCA 2.0 program. I was rewarded with a $100 gift card to express my frustrations. 20 more focus groups and I will have recovered the cost of the MOC exam I took.

      I hadn’t noticed this talk on the agenda before, but like others, I usually just looked at the free sessions. I’ve got a generous CME fund, so I didn’t balk at the fee. If I were paying out of pocket, I could have deducted the cost as a business expense to this site. I didn’t go in planning to write a post about it, but I had enough ideas to share by the time it was over, so I did.

      If my talk at the WCI conference goes well, I may look into presenting at the ASA next year.

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • Do you think there is a correlation with the few number of attendees to how many doctors are actually saving for retirement? It would be interesting to see the percentage of doctors that are saving for retirement compared to other fields like engineering or law.

    • There was a Fidelity study that showed only half of physicians in the survey were maxing out a 401(k). I would guess the percentage is higher among anesthesiologists, simply because we have above average income for physicians. Most young physicians are more focused on paying down debts, but it’s obviously best to try to reduce debt and save for retirement.

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • I’ll bet the low turnout had more to do with the $75 fee. Too bad it wasn’t offered for free. I bet your attendance would have quadrupled. It could have been even more well attended if it had been split into 3 separate presentations. These sorts of talks at ACEP get 250+ in them.

    At any rate, good to see the talks being given and some docs attending.

    • I imagine you are correct regarding the fee and the time commitment.

      Perhaps you and I should each give a one-hour talk next year at next year’s ASA. I know how you like San Francisco.

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • The low attendance is frustrating (“you can lead a horse to water…”).

    I wonder if there is a structural way to address this in medical school? Just like when MBA programs were forced to start teaching ethics when they realized they were mass-producing Gordon Gekkos.

    Could you teach basics of finance / retirement planning to young prospective doctors and catch them before the industry sinks their claws? You could also cover the basics of running a practice like a business – I know some MD’s in my MBA program were doing just that, but you don’t need two years of study, just two weeks (plus a hyperlink to this site and White Coat Investor!).

  • Much has been said already by your wise readers. The fee is probably a turn-off for many despite many on high income and having access to credits.

    After I asked you last night about whether the SWR topic was in the Griswold presentation, I thought more about it and reconsidered. I think from reading your site and that of the WCI, the primary goal is to get more physicians simply saving and investing. I could only imagine a few slides with screen-shots from the SWR expert, Big ERN, would have flummoxed most of the audience. Huh, first time I have written the word flummoxed!!

    Anyway, thanks for organizing the meet-up at Harpoon last night. It was fun being on a brewery tour for the first time and getting time to have a few beers and chat with your good self.

    See you at FinCon for more financial nerdiness, beer and learning.

    • I look foward to all of it! See you in a couple days.

      SWR got one slide, but he had a lot of ground to cover. I was surprised by how fast the time went by as we jumped from one important topic to the next. Big ERN could probably lecture for three hours on safe withdrawal rates alone.

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • Tim

    It may have been an informative 3 hours but do you feel like you feel like it was worth $75 when so much information is now thankfully (thank you WCI) available online for little to no cost? Did you learn anything new that you haven’t already learned elsewhere? Do you feel that physicians who are keen on learning about retirement would choose this fee-only venue as their means for learning? In fact, I’m curious if the fact that the age of the seminar skewed older is because younger physicians can find retirement planning information more easily online than their older kin. I also feel that the doc, especially younger doc, who’s interested in retirement planning strategies is likely also frugal and will find other ways to learn at this conference that don’t cost $75.

    • I think if each attendee took one action to improve their investing or retirement strategy, they will have a great return on that $75 investment.

      That being said, I tried to express similar sentiments in the introduction. There may be very good reasons why people chose not to attend, including the cost, the alternatives, and the time commitment, but I do think indifference is a big one.

      Many (probably most) of the docs will be reimbursed for their attendance in some fashion. My admission fee came from my CME fund, which is rather generous.

      Best,
      -PoF

  • Pretty disappointing turnout. The optimist in me might think that’s because the people who didn’t show up already have a good handle on finances and retirement planning. The realist in me agrees with your sentiment… that most docs just aren’t interested in finance and just let others handle their money.

    I, too, didn’t know about the “retirement smile.” I guess as long as I don’t live past 80 years then I should be good. Haha!

  • This is a great synopsis and very timely, thanks PoF!

    I was fortunate to be asked to speak at the American Society of Colorectal Surgeons in Nashville this coming May during their financial symposium. It is a free event for the attendees, so I am hoping for a better turnout.

    My topic is “When can I retire?” which is probably the most loaded “short” question ever created, especially when you have medical students to soon-to-be retirees looking for their own specific answer. It was nice to see your pros and cons from the event you attended, that will surely help me as I start to build the presentation.

    Thanks, PoF!

    • Congrats on the invitation. I wouldn’t mind being a fly on the wall for that presentation — you’ll have to let me know how it goes.

      I’d start with “I know many physicians who had grand plans to retire, but the great recession rectum.”

      Cheers!
      -PoF

  • It is both disappointing and scary if people don’t really take an interest in their personal finances. This may be especially true for professionals like doctors for whom the stakes can be high in terms of dollars involved, burnout potential, and the fact you are basically responsible for yourself.

    I am in Canada where most physicians are independent contractors. Our very progressive and complex tax system compounds that further. On the plus side, we have MD Management affiliated with the CMA that seeks out med students right off the bat and they have good general financial advisors. They have a fairly standard way of doing things and I worry that people all just follow along with one way of doing things because it is the first offered and decent/comfortable without realizing everything that is out there. Sites like yours give some fresh ideas and a different perspective.

    Maybe you should consider joining someone giving the “traditional” type symposium like the one you attended. It would certainly be value added. The turnout is not encouraging for that, so may not be a super efficient use of your time – but even if it helps a few people it may be worthwhile. Thanks for what you do for us via the internet.

  • Gasem

    I’m guessing FEAR and DENIAL are the main impediments. Fear of being sold something or committing to the WRONG thing, and denial that somehow something as important as retirement could in the main be easy. Anyone of us could write a credible near bulletproof retirement plan on a cocktail napkin or two. Afterall something as important as money must be complicated the entire friggin financial industry relies on you believing that, and those jokers on CNBC which is blaring in the Dr’s lounge all day long SELL SELL SELL you complicated courses on options trading and all that. Why even Chuck the pilot has his course which pays him 50K per month. Screw Chuck. I once read Cramer is wrong 66% of the time so sure fire is watch Cramer and do the opposite!

    ASA is loaded with residents and as a resident I would not sped $75 to have my fear and denial messed with. Even as a young attending. But these are the real people that need help before Raymond James gets his hooks into them. Once Raymond’s got ya, your dead meat. The solution to this is media like this blog WCI ERN and others.

  • Amy

    Reading this just gets me excited to attend the WCI conference next year where the whole focus is on this topic! It blows my mind how few of my colleagues want to discuss this stuff.

    On a side note, I still struggle with my decision to continue to contribute to the Roth portion of my 401k plan. I’ve read what you and WCI say about this. I’m in my peak earnings years so perhaps it’s time to change it up and go back to putting all 53k into the traditional. I am paying taxes on 18K and don’t need to be! What am I doing??

  • MC

    Yup! 36 year of Anesthesiologist – 5 years into practice. I was at ASA but opted against the $75 fee for the financial session. Certainly thought about it but between this site and WCI we get all the information we need
    for a much more cost effective price tag. Thanks and keep it coming

  • I think it is partly a problem with the title of the lecture. I’m interested in this stuff, and I’m not interested in that title. To me, “retirement planning” sounds like something designed for 60-year-olds (I know it’s really not). It’s the same flavor of what I see on commercials during football games with white-haired couples golfing while their financial firm “advisor” takes care of the rest. I just read past those titles like they are aimed at someone else. I wonder if there would be better (more youthful) attendance with something like this:

    Financial Freedom for Physicians: Do a few things today to assure you can call the shots tomorrow (and retire when and how you want).

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