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Have you ever been to a timeshare presentation? I have. Five times, in fact, over the last 15 years, with two of them occurring quite recently.
On one hand, these sales pitches are not a great use of our vacation time (or the salesperson’s time) when I know I’m going to say “No” regardless.
On the other hand, they do compensate you for attending, I find the marketing tactics to be interesting, and I now have unlimited vacation time.
I’d like to review my past experiences, let you know what to expect, and provide you with some tactics to help you get to No, which is almost assuredly the correct answer.
Have you ever stayed on a timeshare property? The quality can obviously vary from one place to another, but the handful of places we’ve stayed were actually fairly nice.
Our short list includes the Wyndham Bali Hai in Kailua, HI, the BlueGreen Fountains Resort in Orlando, FL, and Hilton Grand Vacations Parc Soleil, also in Orlando.
The Wyndham property we reserved via Airbnb, we were guests of owners at BlueGreen at a very reasonable rate of $79 a night for a spacious 2-bed, 2-bath room place, and the Hilton Property was a 4-night introductory package for $249 with a mandatory sales pitch as part of the discount.
Each of these places had community pools and hot tubs, gyms, and game rooms, gas grills available, and offered large apartments with full kitchens. These kitchens are sparsely supplied, but you’ll generally have all you need to prepare and eat most meals on-site as long as you wash your dishes daily.
I’d say the grounds and furnishings of the places we’ve stayed were on par with that of a 3.5 to 4 star hotel — not the fanciest, but clean and comfortable.
Perks of Attending a Timeshare Presentation
I wouldn’t dream of sitting through one of these sales pitches if I didn’t get something in return. What do they offer?
In three of the five presentations I’ve sat through, the main perk was a prepaid debit card loaded with $100 to $150.
In Hawaii, my wife and I each scored Luau tickets that would have cost us $250 or so.
Finally, the Hilton Grand Vacations perk was 25,000 Hilton Honors points (a value of $100 to $125) plus a huge discount on staying at the property. We stayed 4 nights for $249 in a place that I would value at $200 or more per night if it were a comparable suite in a Hilton hotel.
If you’re married, typically both spouses must attend the presentation to qualify for the perks, and the sales pitch will typically last 90 to 120 minutes. Make sure you keep track of time and don’t be afraid to remind whoever is working with you that they’re running out of time.
If you’re only getting $100 and putting in 3 or 4 hours combined, that’s not the greatest hourly rate, so keep that in mind. You’d better have plenty of time on your hands and/or a keen curiosity to learn more about how timeshare programs and how they’re sold. Otherwise, it’s probably not worth your valuable vacation time to sit through one of these.
What to Expect When You’re Rejecting
At the end of the presentation, you’ll be saying “No” several times, and probably to more than one person. If this makes you feel at all uncomfortable, then you have no business signing up to attend the presentation.
You’re going to be pitched an expensive liability, but it will be framed in a way by a clever and experienced salesperson as an asset that will give you a lifetime of vacation magic. You likely will also be given a “now or never” deal that expires the minute you walk out of that room.
What they won’t tell you is that there is a large second-hand market for timeshare weeks and point packages, often with sellers just wanting to get out of their commitment as cheaply as possible. Yes, people give these things away or sell them for a dollar to escape the burden of the annual maintenance fees.
If you understand the program well and are convinced you’ll get more than your money’s worth by becoming an owner, you may very well be able to become an owner at a 90% to 99% discount as compared to buying directly from the company. The timeshares are obviously aware of this, and some have responded either by granting valuable perks only to those who buy directly from them or by disallowing the resale of a deeded ownership if it’s being sold for too little. Disney Vacation Club and Hilton Grand Vacations reportedly exercise their right of first refusal on third-party sales.
When you sit down for the actual timeshare presentation, expect to be engaged in conversation. The salesperson will want to connect with you on a personal level.
Expect to be complimented. Expect leading questions. Expect questions where the only logical answer is “Yes.” They want you to get used to saying that word.
You can expect to have access to coffee, soft drinks, and snacks. They want you to be comfortable and willing to stay awhile. They do expect you to stay awhile. We’ve had OK experiences for the most part, but the very first presentation we endured definitely went over the stated timeframe, which I believe was 90 minutes. The salesman was not very pleased when we brought that up, but we had every right to do so.
Expect the closer to come around at the end. That’s the second salesperson whose job it is to give you additional options after you’ve denied the first package offered to you. They may or may not be polite. A recent closer apparently had this weird good cop / bad cop routing with the salesman, and the closer was clearly the bad cop. It was awkward.
How Much Do You Spend on Vacations?
These companies must compare notes because their presentations not only have consistent themes, but parts of it are basically identical.
For example, both the man with Blue Green and the woman with Hilton Grand Vacations talked about taking a daughter or niece to the Animal Kingdom Villas and how they could see the giraffes grazing right outside their window. Apparently, you can transfer points from either system to use at this particular Disney property.
Did they both have this personal experience of a young relative pointing out the giraffes? It’s possible, as both salespeople are located in Orlando, but the nearly identical stories seemed a bit contrived, if not fabricated, and almost familiar, as I may have actually heard this story in one of my three prior presentations in years past.
Another common exercise is one in which you’re asked how often you vacation and how much you spend per night on lodging. They multiply a number of days per year by the cost per night and multiply that figure by a number of years.
We were an interesting test subject. If it weren’t for a pandemic, we’d be spending half the year traveling, spending anywhere from $20 to $200 a night on lodging. We can’t really project that forward, though, since our kids will be in high school before long, and that will greatly impact our ability to travel, assuming they attend a brick and mortar school.
Anyway, the idea is that they show you that you’ll probably spend six figures on travel accommodations over a lifetime, and that’s somehow supposed to make you feel better about spending a mid-six-figure sum on a timeshare package now.
It’s an odd comparison to make, and they leave out all sorts of variables, but I guess the idea is to show you a really big number first to soften the blow when you find out how much they’re going to ask for before you walk out the door that day.
The Fuzzy Math of Timeshare Ownership
I’ve looked into the details of several of these programs at various times in the past. There actually is a way to make the math work in your favor if you obtain your points or package in a low-cost way.
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I do believe you can get good value for your money, especially if most of the following apply to you:
- You usually vacation at resorts (which may not be near a city center).
- Your schedule is flexible and you can travel in the off-season or shoulder seasons.
- You have a job that allows you to work from anywhere (i.e. a digital nomad).
- You don’t expect your preferred vacation style or preferences to change much for decades.
- You are an optimizer and will learn exactly how to squeeze the maximum value out of your allotted points
What I like to do is compare the annual maintenance fees to how many nights you can book in a year. The answer will vary by the time of year you travel, what resort(s) you choose, and how large a place you need.
I’d say the average tends to be $500 to $1,000 per week if you can avoid popular spots in their busy seasons. Weekdays tend to require fewer points than weekends.
For what you get, that’s actually a pretty good value if you can get the package for next to nothing. You’ll find that people part with them for next to nothing (in some cases paying to get rid of them).
The trouble is, even if you only pay a nominal fee for your package, you now have a liability that lasts a lifetime. Whether you use it or not, you’ll be paying those annual maintenance fees eternally until you get rid of the package yourself. There are some vacation clubs that come with an expiration date in 20 or 25 years, and I actually think that makes good sense. We’ve met several people in our travels that were only at the resort because they have to pay the fees so they figure they might as well take the trip.
That use-it-or-lose-it feature is actually a very good thing for the type of people that might never take a vacation if it wasn’t already prepaid. Some people, believe it or not, actually have to be forced to travel.
You may be told by owners or the sales team that you can get a credit card with benefits that will more than cover your annual maintenance fees. For example, there’s a BlueGreen card that gives you 1% back that can be used towards maintenance fees. A much, much better option would be to get a credit card that gives you 1.5% to 2% cash back or a travel rewards card that you can use to earn free travel in far more places.
There’s a real opportunity cost in using that credit card perks to pay your maintenance fees when you could get a higher percentage back on a better card with infinite redemption options.
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Opportunity Costs
When the salespeople talk with you about costs, they fail to mention opportunity costs.
It’s true that the maintenance fees you pay in exchange for a week or two at a nice resort might represent a good value, but if you’re only vacationing a week or two a year, you’ll never go anywhere that doesn’t have a resort that your vacation package qualifies for.
That rules out at least 99% of the places you could be staying when you factor in hotels, homes and apartments via airbnb or VRBO, and non-timeshare resorts. That’s a huge opportunity cost.
If the timeshare contract puts you to a particular week in a particular place, that is extremely limiting, and I would not recommend it. Now, you’ve eliminated 99.999% of vacations that you could be taking at that time.
The salespeople also fail to mention, and may not fully understand, the opportunity cost of sinking $60,000 into a points package.
I brought up the fact that investing that $60k into an index fund or real estate fund instead would give me two things that a timeshare would not. One is a steady stream of income in the form of dividends, distributions, and potentially capital appreciation. At 6% to 10% a year, on average, that’s $3,600 to $6,000 a year that I might expect to gain, and I could use all of that towards travel.
The other thing it gives me is a valuable asset with excellent liquidity. In 10 or 20 years, my $60,000 investment might be worth double or quadruple, and I can sell at any time. The timeshare investment, on the other hand, especially when purchased at full price at a presentation, will likely have lost most of its value before you’ve even used it once. Decades from now, you might be willing to give the thing away to anyone who is willing to take on the liability of those annual maintenance fees and dues.
The saleswoman I spoke to didn’t want to hear about opportunity cost, and of course, she was a timeshare owner herself. They always are, it seems, and I highly doubt they paid full asking price.
Just Say No
My solution to the timeshare presentation is the same as Nancy Reagan’s approach to illicit drugs. “Just Say No.”
It’s not rude to decline a major purchase, Nathan, and that’s what this would be. A major purchase you are quite likely to regret. No matter how much you might like the person trying to sell it to you, remind yourself that this person repeatedly sells overpriced packages to people who don’t need them.
There is a fine line between being honest and being rude, and with any luck, you won’t have to cross it. My approach is to be friendly and honest. I’ll show interest in the person I’m talking to without showing interest in the product he or she is promoting.
There’s no need to feign interest in the vacation package, either. They know that the vast majority of people are there for the freebie and have no intention of buying. Still, they manage to convert quite a few, selling to about 15% of attendees, and they’ll hope you’re open to being converted, too. Don’t be.
85% will go on to regret their purchase, according to the Finn Law Group. Don’t be among that cohort, either.
Just say no.
Should You Attend a Timeshare Presentation?
Again, if you find it difficult to say “no” to these nice people who’ve spent an hour or two getting to know you and your travel habits, please stay away.
However, If you’ve got ample time, find marketing tactics intriguing, and can get something worth a couple hundred bucks or more, then they’re probably worth checking out.
You may even discover that the program has a lot to offer. If that’s the case, I suggest you study the ins and outs well both before and after the presentation. Take some time to learn what the best options are for getting points on the secondary market. The forums at Redweek and TUG can be invaluable for this. A quick eBay search will also yield hundreds of options.
Personally, I’m not a member of any vacation club, fractional ownership, or timeshare by any other name. I do know some people that are happy with theirs, and they tend to be people with a lot of flexibility who have learned to optimize their points to get the most bang for their buck.
I haven’t completely ruled out buying into one of these programs someday, but if I ever do, you can bet it won’t be while attending one of these timeshare presentations.
What experiences have you had with timeshare presentations? Any horror stories? Success stories? If you’re an owner, what do you do to get your money’s worth?
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29 thoughts on “A Timeshare Presentation Survival Guide: Getting to “No””
Total agree.. from Finacial level you are EXACTLY RIGHT. And the people that sell these timeshares are vampires. sorry, really 85% get/feel robbed. They get you coming and going with the Maint Fees. Just save your money and take vacations as needed so many other ways to take trips. btw, you can be a Gold or higher memeber for Hilton if you just get the AmEx for Hilton.
your opportunity cost section is a joke. lol. so you incest 60k which of course you never did before the presentation but ah yes now you will. then you will make 6% on your investment when hotel inflation averages 6.5% so you’re losing ground. but hey you’re going to continue using that 6000 dollars in dividends to RENT vacations. so in 7 years with inflation you’ve spent the SAME 60k that the timeshare costs but instead of paying 1500 a year in maintenance for those same 6000 dollars worth of vacations and investing the difference of 4500 you will continue to spend the next 40 years paying full and ever increasing prices….. yeaaahhhh makes sense.
Why would you suggest that I wouldn’t have the $60k invested? Of course, I would. If I wanted to buy a timeshare instead, I would either a) sell $60k of my investments or b) save up $60k in cash rather than invest it. I suppose a 3rd option would be to borrow the money, but to do so for a purchase that’s likely to lose 80% to 99% of its value immediately would be incredibly unwise.
I also doubt that my investments will fail to keep up with inflation (of hotels), and hotels aren’t the right comparison, anyway. If I want a kitchen and bedrooms and staying somewhere for more than a couple days, I’m most likely looking at an Airbnb or VRBO property. There are some 7 million options worldwide, or more than 1000x times the number of timeshare resorts.
The comparison of spending $6,000 of investment earnings on vacations instead of $1,500 on maintenance fees ignores the fact that the person who bought the timeshare doesn’t have the investment earnings to spend on maintenance fees or anything else. They spent the $60k rather than leaving it invested. They’re not $4,500 ahead each year; they’re $1,500 behind with some prepaid vacation lodging.
Cheers!
-PoF
Thanks for the article! This timeshare concept is really new to me, I must say it sounds pretty dodgy to get paid to attend a sales pitch. Probably that tactic alone would put me off. When you first started talking about it, I thought it was like a group presentation, but 90 mins 1-1 being sold to? No thanks!
Very clever article; but was its was full of hate for time sale salespeople? That was his final word.
He may not believe in pay 10% tithing, but for paid tithing for 65 years, I have done more with 90% because God has blessed me.
He does give a little good advice; telling what to do, but he hates time share salespeople.
He wasted their time. Shame on him.
I own no time share. I am a real estate sales person and builder now, I started my career as a pot salesperson to pay for college. Those Saladmaster pots were expensive, but guaranteed for a life time. If I broke one today they would replace it!
Go see for your self if time share is right for you, don’t take the word of a clever writer who hates timeshare sales people.
We did one once, long time ago. It just feels a little icky to me to take the discount when you have no intention to buy it. I’ll pay for a room somewhere and avoid that awkwardness. But I guess its like hacking credit cards, the companies are asking for it and accept it as the price of making sales, but still, not for me, ever again. There are limits on what I’ll do for money, in fact now that I don’t need money anymore there are a lot of them.
I owned two timeshares in the past, one with Disney Vacation Club and the other with Marriott. I would grade the DVC as a B+ as a purchase and Marriott as a solid C. It’s probably not the most prudent financial purchase one could make, but we enjoyed great family vacations when the family was young, going to Disney World and the Disney Resort in Hilton Head and to multiple western Marriott resorts.
Having control of lodging for 6-12 people allowed us to invite family and friends on all of our trips. I do not believe we traveled once to a Disney property without grandpa or some friends of the kids. I even gave Disney points to two of my partners when they were going to DW, and they were very appreciative. The Disney points, in particular, are in high demand. When I sold the Beach Club points a few years back, I actually earned a profit!
On the other hand, I had a senior partner who often tried to trade his weeks in his Cancun timeshares (that he bought for an investment!) to junior partners in exchange for taking a weekend in call. I thought he was trading usage for a week, but it turned out that he was trading ownership for a week- he was that desperate to rid himself of them.
Something that applies to many lifestyle and financial decisions applies to timeshares as well. How and where you want to vacation may change over time. At a certain point, we were less interested in beach and Disney World and summer vacations at ski resorts and more interested in national parks and European vacations. The timeshares did not have the flexibility to accommodate, so we sold them and moved on.
As for the presentations, I think I would rather pay to have my teeth drilled.
I’ve heard good things about DVC, and have friends who are Disney fanatics who are owners. Will they always be Disney Fanatics? Time will tell.
That’s the thing — you’re locked into those maintenance fees for life until you sell or give away your point (if you can). It’s great that you were actuallly able to turn a profit with the Disney membership. That’s a rare program that maintains its value.
Cheers!
-PoF
First thing to point out, if you do sit through a presentation and sign something agreeing to buy a timeshare, almost every state has a window you can rescind the agreement, may be a few days, a week, etc. It will be in the fine print of the contract, I rescinded a Hilton one while visiting Vegas where the numbers looked better flitting with the sales agent, not so good when I thought through it more that night. Of course, they use the sales tactic, you have to sign now, you cannot walk away and get the deal later. I also helped my mother in law rescind one when she vacationed with us via a timeshare, when she attended a presentation with us to get the “gift” offer the company was making, they separated her from us and got her to sign a contract.
This all said, I own two timeshares, one more foolishly bought full cost when I was younger, and a Wyndham one I bought on eBay after learning more about timeshares for pennies on the dollar, probably 25k or more contract for about $500 at the time. Do research about timeshares before you consider buying one, many good blogs out there with info on the different companies, pros, cons, etc.
Yes, thank you for pointing out that it’s not too late once you’ve signed on the dotted line. Just act quickly if you have those second thoughts after walking out!
I looked pretty closely at the Wyndham program after our stay at Bali Hai on Kauai. I’m still tempted at times to buy some points on eBay or some other third party broker, but have yet to pull the trigger.
Cheers!
-PoF
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Wow thank you for actually going through with an actual timeshare presentation, I’ve always wanted to know. It must get pretty exhausting saying no for an entire 90 minutes but it can be a good way to get comfortable saying no to people.
I think they also offer the $100 or $150 freebie so now, it feels like you owe them something. You have an obligation.
I can’t believe there’s an industry with that much power. The ability to lock you in for a lifetime regardless of usage is a bit insane. How are they allowed to get people to commit to something that they’ll have to pay for the rest of their life? I’m not sure if their children also get passed down the liability.
David,
I AM GOING TO TAKE THE TIME FOR EVERYONE HERE TO GET EDUCATED ON HOW TO BEAT THE TIMESHARE SYSTEM.
I totally get your comments but if you are an educated investor and love vacations, timeshares can be an incredible investment. The key is knowing how to negotiate. I ran a public company for years and it is all about education and figuring out the system.
NOTE: It took me 36 months to acquire all below- ALL during downtimes in economy.
I own 4 weeks in Hawaii and one week in Newport and one in St. Kits (trade each year for points) and I pay $8,000 a year in total fees. ANOTHER NOTE: Not for people that don’t have the income but also you don’t have to be uber wealthy.
The key is buying DEED OWNED properties on the secondary market and then negotiating with the company to reinstate original deed owned points status by buying points. Yes you have to put up additional 20-25K buying points to get it done but today I own timeshares that cost me 80K total including the points . (don’t ever finance!) If I had bought at retail price, it would have cost me over 300K!
Let’s review to get to the good part. “Legacy dollars for my family.”
Total Investment: 80K + 8K per year in fees.
I can sell each Hawaii week regularly for $3500 x 4 = $14,000 per year (Keeps going up due to demand).
I can sell the Newport week regularly for $2500/week
St. Kits – Resale week for 2500 as well.
Total rental income $19,000 minus selling/listing fees = $17,000/yr income.
$17,000 – $8,000 fees = $9,000/yr income – positive cash flow for forever basically.
The additional benefit as a Lifetime Marriott Chairman member (reached that status having so many properties) is preferential booking so we also use it a lot to stay at properties that would retail for over $700 a night.
Let me say, I am not the genius here as a lot of people put great articles out there that I read 20+ years ago that helped me secure this legacy for my family.
I just want people to see that if you do your homework, remain patient and be persistent with these companies, you can get it done. Many before and after me have done it as well.
I will admit it is tougher today with rising costs but in a down market like we are entering now, it is possible as these corporations want sales #’s.
Disclaimer: This does not work in an up market typically but when Real Estate markets are down or dropping.
ALl the BEST!!
where and how do you rent your week/points out to people, I have 4 timeshares and we don’t go as much as we thought
I admit to reading only the first 2-3 paragraphs above (not worth my time 😜), however, why would you waste your time PoF, for 100-200 hundred bucks given your financial status ?
Well, if you did indeed get to the 3rd paragraph, I summed it up for you. 🙂
“They do compensate you for attending, I find the marketing tactics to be interesting, and I now have unlimited vacation time.”
And a couple hundred bucks buys a lot of green beer and Shamrock shakes — we headed to Savannah, GA for St. Patrick’s Day just after the first presentation.
Cheers!
-PoF
Another happy timeshare owner here as well. We bought our units on the resale market for a fraction of what the developer charged. We have fixed back to back summer weeks in Myrtle beach and look forward to our beach vacation every year. We have had it for many years and our kids have fond memories of going to our “home away from home”. We thought about buying a place at the beach but fractional ownership is much easier and works well for us.
Timeshares are certainly not for everyone but can be a nice option particularly if you have a large family. Having a full kitchen and laundry in our unit saved us so much money and hassle over the years.
I too never go to timeshare presentations anymore. Too many times it was just a rude pressure sell experience and was not worth whatever they were offering.
My dad owns a lot of time. Paid way too much. I’m not convinced we want to inherit the maintenance fees. We will see.
I have been to several presentations, but the last one was the worst. The “closer” did take the bad cop routine. He said why did we come if we had no interest in buying and was really pushy. So I raised my voice a little so other could hear. I said we came because your front desk people said it didn’t matter if we were interested or not. They said you guys would love the opportunity, if for nothing else, then to let us hear about the benefits we have. I then said, your problem is really with your front desk staff. If you don’t want people like me here, then train them better. We then got up and walked out.
I actually wrote a complaint especially given the fact that we were guests of my dad who like I said has a ton of points.
I told the last front desk crew that they would have to offer me $12,000 to do a visit again. Obviously that wasn’t going to happen.
I really don’t think the presentations are worth your time. Just don’t go.
cd :O)
Yes! The friendly people that invite and register you into the presentations are NOT the people who pressure sell you later. I applaud how you handled that!
I now never go no matter what they are offering after having been treated rudely so many times at the end. Not worth it.
Definitely not worth your time if they treat you like crap. Having interest in buying is not a requirement to attend a presentation.
I’m sure the front desk people have an incentive to get you in the door (probably a flat fee per person) whereas the closer works on commissions. When incentives are misaligned, people can get angry, but that anger should never be directed at the potential customer!
Best,
-PoF
I am one of those happy timeshare owners. I love mine. I own a specific week at a specific resort and have owned it for more than 30 years and have never once stayed at the resort I own. I own one week and milk out about 7 weeks a year of trades all over the place. When I go somewhere, I first look to see if there is a timeshare available and stay there and usually pay less and get more than any other option in the area. It is especially good for conferences as timeshare locations and conference locations often line up in resort towns. If no timeshare is available, then I find another option. I have learned to never go the sales presentation. I value my time more than the value of what they would give me in exchange for it and I’m retired with lots of free time. No I don’t and have never been in the timeshare business or sold timeshares. I’m a owner and a user of the service. Except for 2020 when I didn’t go anywhere, but I get my first vaccine dose today and am already looking at booking vacations again. Happy travels.
Dr. Cory S. Fawcett
Financial Success MD
Nice!
You definitely fit the mold of someone that I think could get a lot of value from a timeshare. Plenty of time, flexibility, ability to travel in off-peak times, and the willingness to learn how to optimize your allotted “week” / points.
Cheers!
-PoF
I take this as a reminder that even if I think I’m more rational and careful than the average person, I’m probably deceiving myself and so should simply avoid getting in to these situations to begin with, even if there’s a “free” (except for my time) prize!
My mother-in-law bought into one of these years ago. I think that generation was more trusting and didn’t have the internet as a resource, so the arguments the salesperson came up with sounded pretty good. She did use it to visit Florida repeatedly, but I don’t think her week was transferable so at some point it was certainly a negative, and I don’t think anyone was doing the opportunity cost math.
Thanks for the heads up. There are some other blog posts out there on this topic that go into more details with the numbers that are pretty fascinating (photos of whiteboards included!). Sorry I don’t remember where they are, but anyone considering it should do some research, as you say!
In regards to all the questions they ask you about your travel spending habits, what are your thoughts on just declining politely to answer their questions?
I see nothing wrong with that. They’ll probably just throw out a ballpark figure and move forward. I’m sure they’ve heard every reply (or lack thereof) you could possibly come up with.
Cheers!
-PoF